An interview with founder & CEO of Macanta CRM, Peter Daly-Dickson.

In this episode, we discuss how creating a CRM system that responds to specific needs from an organisation is a sure way of creating a successful CRM platform. We also discussed how CRM systems can help sales processes into converting leads into closed deals, by managing relationships between different parties who are attempting and hopefully succeeding at building mutually beneficial relationships based on “know, like, trust” concept.

In short, CRM platforms, and the discipline to add information to it, is a digital recreation of basic human nature, of using stored information to have a meaningful conversation!

Find out more in this episode dedicated to CRM, its impact on sales process, marketing automation, and what the predictions for the future sales landscape may be.

Peter Daly-Dickson LinkedIn Profile: click here
Macanta CRM website: click here


Welcome to the front line, the sales and marketing podcast.

Hello, everyone and welcome to the sales and marketing podcast where we aim to provide entrepreneurs and enterprise leaders with the three teams the tools, tips, tools, tips and techniques to help improve sales and marketing knowledge for better results. I’m Collis CRM and marketing automation guy and I’m joined here with a florist blog marketing strategy, customer experience and digital transformation expert today, we have a guest topic. near and dear to my heart, we are joined by Peter Daly Dixon, founder and CEO of McKenzie. CRM, a platform that helps you build the perfect CRM for your business. Welcome, Peter. How are you?

Pretty good. Thanks, Avon. Thanks for the welcome and introduction. No worries at all. I guess one of the things we we were kind of talking about before the session was,

what CRM is what it isn’t. And I guess I’d like to start off with your definition of what a CRM is and why it’s important.

It’s a great question. I hope you haven’t got any other questions, because that’s a podcast episode in itself. And I will just apologize for my voice. This is the fourth or fifth call this morning. It’s not even lunchtime. So if I’m sounding a little hoarse, it’s because I’ve probably been a little bit too exuberant on on earlier calls.

I think that the challenge for all of us that are working in the CRM space is that CRM has become this kind of catch all term for business software.

I mean, it’s what it actually stands for, you know, as well as I do is contact relationship management, client relationship management. And it’s typically or has typically been put into a business to help salespeople in an organization manage the relationships between salespeople, the organization, and and their clients. And those relationships are typically exemplified through email, through phone conversations through text messages, that sort of stuff. So that that that relationship between the organization or salesperson in an organization, and the client or the prospect is typically what a CRM is there to do. And I think over the years, though, as more and more platforms and apps and systems come out, and you know, there’s

far more than you can shake a stick at these days, you know, as well as I do, I think as at the moment, we stand at about 8000 plus martec. products, and that’s just martic. Yeah.

And obviously, CRM is in there. And I think because of that, the term CRM has kind of broadened its its its scope to be

really any software that helps a business run. And and that’s, that’s certainly the approach that that we’ve taken to it with mecanica.

Yeah, excellent. I like you said, like, a lot of people tend to include things that or I think, a lot of platforms try and get away with calling themselves a CRM if they capture a first name, last name and an email. And I think that’s pretty much a very

deceptive way to go. You know, I think of one will mention it without mentioning it, I’ll say it’s

And that seems to have added a CRM function on it as well. And sometimes it just doesn’t cut the mustard, I think that people will tend to be misled with the wrong kind of thing and end up just having a mess, we’ll have a spreadsheet, it’s not much better.

I think you’re right. And if I, if I had, I do have a choice, so we all want choices.

But we call ourself mecanica CRM,

really to I mean, we as humans love to be able to put things into pigeonholes and categorize them.

And although my canta is way, way more than just a CRM, just allowing you to manage the one, the one to one relationship between you as the organization, your prospects and clients, we put it into

we put it into the name, just so that we kind of get some kind of recognition as to where meccanica fits in a in a business.

If that makes sense. Yeah.

florist young new

sentence of 2020. You’re on mute.

So we had Louise karsch on the show and Luis Kosh is all about branding and she’s written books about branding. She’s a best selling author on

names and how important brand names are. And one of the key to say key things that she said, Not to me on my show when we interviewed her, but more on Lauren Chris, the show, which is that if you put what the software actually does in the name, you have a much better chance of actually getting it out there and getting the recognition observed. So by saying mecanica CRM, you’re actually very clearly indicating what it says on the tin. And if it delivers, you’ve got a good combination. Yeah. So so so we did something right, even though we didn’t know what we were doing.

I’m sure you do. A lot of it is instinctive work in some cases. In other cases, people would require the services of the person like the least cost. By the way, this is a plug for Luis Kosh.

So how does the CRM I guess apply to the sales process?

In your welding the mechanical well?

Well, I mean, obviously, before, maybe it’s not obvious. But before somebody,

before another human decides to give money to an organization, there has to be an element of trust there. Yeah, unless you’re buying clothes pegs or pocket a maltesers. You know, from the newsagent, you know, for the, for the kind of,

not not even high ticket, but the kind of services and products that professional service firms supply. It’s generally a considered purchase. And all things being equal. People buy from people, humans buy from other humans that they know like and trust, that’s generally recognized to be true. But here’s the thing that a lot of people don’t recognize is that all things not being equal. People still tend to buy from people they know, like and trust. So the commonality in the buying process is to do everything you can to foster an environment where

two humans have an opportunity to know like and trust each other. And a CRM,

if all a salesperson was doing was only only ever going to sell to, to one person, maybe to one person at a time, they probably wouldn’t need a CRM because I don’t need a CRM to manage my relationship with you, Avon flyers, I’ve only just met you today for the first time, I don’t need a CRM to manage my relationship with you, I don’t need CRM to manage my relationship with my wife, she might, she might argue something different. But but generally speaking, we don’t we don’t need a CRM or a system to manage relationships that are that are kind of just one to one like that. So but but a CRM does come into its own, where a salesperson has to manage and keep on top of relationship, his or her relationship with a lot of other humans at the same time. Because, you know, when it’s not built, to keep that amount of, of information and stuff in our, in our heads, and, and so that’s one, that’s one part of it, that that’s that’s why a CRM is important to the salesperson, you know, in order just to keep some kind of

maintain their sanity, if you like, in terms of keeping track of who they’re selling to what’s being discussed with, with who,

you know, as a salesperson to capture the information, which helps to

engender that know, like, trust your let’s say, the prospect mentions in conversation that the, the eldest son has just been going into hospital, for some, for some reason, well, the good salesperson is going to store that information somewhere, not not to kind of, you know, be manipulate or whatever. But if they are genuinely coming at that relationship with that prospect for a position of, I want to build a no like trust relationship with this other human. Then just think about if it was your friend, if your friend told you that their son had been taken to hospital the next time you saw them? Probably it’s probably gonna be the first question you ask how’s your son, how’s he doing?

And so that’s why a CRM is important to the salesperson. But if you actually go up a level actually think about it from an organization perspective. CRM is a vitally important to an organization because otherwise

not otherwise. Because the value in the organization is expressed between the know like trust relationships that exists between the people in the organization and then the people that are attempting to sell to, so if I’m just relying on each other

The visual salesperson to have their own individual system, whether it be on the back of an envelope or whether it be a spreadsheet or whatever, then as an organization, I am, I have no sight of the asset, which is, which is being built inside my business, which is all of these relationships with, you know, between my organization, and the people that are looking to do to do business with it. So, CRMs are important for both those areas, really, that’s good to hear someone else explain it in such a very different way. I think sometimes.

Myself, I can get caught up in the technicality of it. And I use very similar to you with the

son in hospital, I say, you know, if their dog broke its leg, you can always ask, how’s the dog’s leg healing? Is that okay? And you will completely change that relationship. And I always talk about the big red bus scenario, what happens if one of your team members get hit by a big red bus, and all of that stuff goes with them, you know, whether that big red bus is a promotion at a job somewhere else, maybe it actually is a big red bus. But if all of their

corporate knowledge was up here, or in a post it notes all over their dashboard and their car or something, it’s gone. And you have no way of transferring that to somebody else. Like, we’ve got the message feed, and we just add mentioned someone else in the team. And then they’ve got the same backlog of history on everything that’s involved with that client. Yeah. Well, it’s very difficult, you know, you know, yourself, if you’re introduced to, you know, friends, friends of your friends, it’s difficult, it can be difficult to kind of get up to speed with with the different relationships. Well, from an organization perspective, that is next to impossible if you are completely blind to what’s gone. What’s gone before? Absolutely, yeah. You said that. You don’t need to manage your relationship with your partner, because your partner is in your wife. But if you write her birthday down anywhere, you are essentially building a database of information about that person. Are you in Australia? Yeah.

There’s a funny thing there, by the way, is the funny thing I must say. I need to drop my wife in is that is our anniversary a couple of days ago. And every single Yeah, normally, it’s the it’s the cliche, isn’t it, the husband forgets the anniversary, we we were married on the 12th of the 11th 2011. And she can never remember whether it was the 10th of November, or the title number she knows it wasn’t wasn’t the 11th because we didn’t get by it on 11 1111. So sorry, I was just

you could actually my wife, it’s my, it’s my wife that needs to write it down, not me.

Well, I know someone who can sell her to CRM.

You could create an automation be like 30 days out from my email reminder, seven days out, then

this great onboarding sequence, which is a fantastic segue to actually what Peter said, which is it started off as basically nothing more than a digital version of a Rolodex, right. But then automation started being added to it. And automation now is part of the definition of what a CRM is. So can you do you know, maybe a little bit of the history of when automation started becoming part of CRM and what is automation? And how can be best used in, in in a sales environment?

It’s a great question. And I would hate to,

by simply by virtue of opening my mouth prove my ignorance of the first part of your question.

But I suspect that Sales Automation has been around. I mean, from I believe, the Sales Automation was part of sales forces, kind of

version reason for a reason for being Yeah.

But I think it’s when you think about marketing automation, per se.

I know there’s one company Infusionsoft which we’re very big in helping to both describe and to define that market. So they started up in

2004, so nearly

nearly 20 years now they’ve been going and that’s for a software company. That’s That’s a long time. So a very successful company.


had a couple of missteps, I think by their their own admission. And I think early on it was

because they were trying to be everything they were trying to be the ecommerce system, the affiliate management system, the

landing page, the email marketing automation follow up and all that but but actually, the thing that Infusionsoft does really, really well is marketing automation. And

that was really my my first exposure to the

Both the concept and the possibilities with automating stuff in a business. So when I first saw Infusionsoft, because I because I’m not primarily marketing, focused on marketing based, I have a technical background, as we mentioned before we started recording is, I really saw the possibility of Infusionsoft being able to automate other stuff in in a business. So automating tasks, reminders and, and, and processes and the like.

So, yeah, I’m kind of rambling, because I’ve forgotten all the elements of your of your question. So I think Sales Automation, market automation has been around for a long time, but I think it’s really in the last the last 10 or 15 years that it’s really started to take hold. And that’s mean, it’s over that time that we’ve seen the likes of Active Campaign and ontraport and drip and, and, you know, these other systems kind of stand on the top of the market defining work that Infusionsoft did to to help businesses automate. Okay, automate their marketing anyway. So the second part of the question was, I mean, knowing we know what marketing automation, but for example, for our audience, then how would you define marketing automation? And how does it fit in a sales environment?

Okay, so it’s a it’s a good question, I kind of got a bit of a love hate relationship with it, actually, because my experience of working with Infusionsoft was that because it was so because it’s the engine that they built to

create the automations in a business was so powerful is the people like me, and Avon, and you probably to a certain extent, florists, saw it, and thought, Oh, my God, what else is this tool going to be able to do? And

the challenge that is actually the reason why macandrew exists is is inherently because of that problem. But we’ll come to that a little bit later on.

That if you stick to what Infusionsoft and tools like it do really, really well. As

I’ve best heard this described as

personalization at scale. So we all know that we receive an email that says,

hey, Pete, just checking in, make sure you’re okay not heard from you for a little while. Nice guy probably going to get a greater chance of being opened and be a greater chance of being actioned on it then if it just says, Hello, subscriber.

Or, or Hello, Hello, friend.

So what marketing automation allows you to do is to take

what you might ordinarily do, if it was just a single one to one relationship. So let’s pretend that Avon is a is a prospective customer of mine. And let’s pretend that Avon is the only ever prospective customer of mine. I hope to god that’s not true. It isn’t.

So So what market automation allows me to do is to think how am I communicate with with Avon? If I didn’t have to think about No, we talked about earlier about CRM is allowing salespeople to cope with multiple relationships, multiple people, let’s pretend it was just one to one. So market automation allows me to, to write an email, as if Avon is the only person I’m ever going to do business with. But then to to encapsulate that in a in a sequence or a campaign that can get sent to anybody that comes across my business, that that where that email needs to be sent at a particular point in time. Now, obviously, there is there is a time in the relationship where you don’t want to automate. So generally speaking, the marketing automation is on is typically towards the

most people are aware of this concept of a funnel where you have the top of the funnel is the whole universe of of people that could ever potentially be customers and then people start to move through the funnel. I think there are aspects of that which are fundamentally flawed, but that’s a topic for another podcast episode. But if we do stick with the analogy, that that part of the sales and marketing process is to move people from a position of complete unawareness to a position of having sufficient know like trust in the organization, the salesperson to be able to spend spend money. The market automation typically works very well at the top of the funnel where you are communicating with you know, a lot

Not a lot more people than any one human could possibly send manual emails to.

So basically, market automation allows you to have personalized communication with

a universe of humans. But to be able to do that at scale, and to be able to adapt that communication, depending on what those humans are they do, or they don’t do. So for example, you send an email and you say, Hey, I came across this video, I think you’d probably I think you’re like, yeah, I think I’d value to you why the next email that goes can be different depending on whether someone click that clicked through to click that to watch that video, or they didn’t, you saw what I mean. So so it appears as if there is a personal and personalized communication from the organization to the to the people receiving the communication. So you originally built meccanica as a layer on top of Infusionsoft hence your deep knowledge of of Infusionsoft and how we came about connecting in the first place.

I just like to understand a little bit about the journey that you’ve gone on to go from add on to stand alone, between, from where it was to where it is today.

The top of you guys is that all of your questions are are podcast worthy in their own right.

But you’re welcome to come back again and record several podcasts with us. You can’t You can’t be that short, a guest surely? No, no, no, but

always interesting to have people and to have these conversations.

So the the, the the short version of the story really

ties back to one of the first things we talked about, which is one of the what is the definition of a CRM is the contact, relationship management. And the kind of partner that I was in the Infusionsoft community. The keep family as it is now was because of my technical background was typically helping Infusionsoft users

link and synchronize their Infusionsoft system with something else. So you might be a

veterinary surgery, for example, and you’ve got humans that are represented in your practice management system. You know, you’ve got your clients, but you’re doing marketing to them. So those same humans are represented in Infusionsoft as well. So there’s a desire to keep the two systems synchronized.

If that makes sense,

the challenge that I kept coming across for my clients time and time again, was that they didn’t just want to automate around the contact. So take the vet, for example. their clients have pets, and they and they wanted to be able to do all of the fun and funky stuff that they were able to do with marketing automation, for their clients for their for the, for the content. Yeah, they wanted to send the email in the in the context of information and knowledge that they had about the pet. So say, for example, I’ve got a pet, I’ve got a cat and I got a rabbit. Well, they’re going to be they’re going to different birthdays, if animals can have birthdays, I guess they can they were born on a on a day.

But just from a from again, coming back to this, there’s no like trust and cementing this relationship that organizations have with their, with their, their leads and their and their clients. Is that how would you feel if your vet sent you an email on the first day of, of, of your, of your dog and your cat and your and your rabbit? You feel great, you know, people have a have a

I sometimes think strange relationship with their pets, but we know that it is a it is a strong one.

So I kept coming across this desire for people that the totally business owners are totally bought into the power of of marketing automation to be able to personalize at scale. But there was a piece missing because that personalization was absent of

information, which is absolutely critical to the delivery of a service to the client. So for a vet, it was the clients pets, for a mortgage broker. It was about the mortgage applications for real estate broker, it was about the properties that people are asking them to sell for the mechanic. It’s about the cars that are there, and the service history of the cars. So I hope I’m getting across that, that there is a whole world of information inside a business

which provided that you’ve got the right tools, you have the capability of of automating around and providing personalized communication to to the client. So that was why we initially gone No, I wanted to suggest a couple of concrete examples on that right. So such as for example, mechanic mechanics is going

Want to know, you know, what is the birthday, for example of the client, the person driving the car, but who wants to know, for example, when the mot is in the UK, that would be the mot. Exactly. And then sending the safety check mot is sending out a reminder a week before that says, Come and see us we’ve got a great deal. And we’ll get you past. Another one would be last time I checked your tires, you had about three mil of tread on, you should be close to where I’m wearing the legal limit off. So come and get your tires check them shape that you’re absolutely right flies and there is there are some people listening to this that have experience with CRM and stuff. Well, I can just store that information as custom fields on the contact record. So yes, you can. But what happens if the clients got two cars? Yeah. How are you going to distinguish when you send them an email that you’re actually emailing them about their

their ute and not their? saloon? Is that the right words in Australia? Again? Yeah, there you go. There you go. So that’s the other aspect of it as well is that typically, the where you got the one contact, there are many instances of the of the other data.

I just what you said about the test certificates. A real world example, we have a client of decanter.

They are

electricians, but they do commercial, commercial work. So they will get a contract with the like, of Woolworths, for example, I know Woolworths is in is on Australia. So right? Yep, yep. Yep, they were in the UK.

To to manage all of the external lighting all the Woolworths stores right across Australia. Now, every single store location has got different kind of lighting, and different kind of lighting needs to be renewed and recertified at different times. So you can imagine trying to keep track of all of this additional data. And that’s really where we’re crossing over into,

where, where we’re different with mecanica is that in the canter, we’re far more interested in helping business owners with the business of their business, as opposed to the marketing of their business. So I noticed the sales and marketing podcast. So perhaps we can’t go too far down that down that road. But really, the, the sales and marketing aspect of our business is just one of the one of the functions and one of the areas of the business which can benefit from from automation. Unless you have a tool, which is built for purpose, if you like to understand all of the additional data that goes on and additional information which goes on to delivering your service, then you can do all the marketing automation and you’d like but there’s going to come at some certain point in time, where you’re going to have to take that person that’s now a customer and move them into a different a different system, as my Cantor allows you to buy to build a CRM, and it’s fully inclusive sense, both to help you manage with the sales and marketing side of it, but also to help you automate more of your business. Because mechanica knows more about your business, it knows about the information that’s important to you. And it knows about the different relationships that different people have to that, to that information to that data.

Just as a side note, or a side question. So in the case of Europe, and right now with the UK, so being part of Europe, GDPR is a concern, or at least it’s a consideration that needs to be taken into account. So how does For example, one, you know, providing consent or

getting consent for that information to be stored? How is that a challenge for any marketer outside?

currently listening? How is that a challenge, you know, that can be overcome, and actually get the information so that we can provide as as marketers, we can provide personalized sort of personalized services?

It’s a great question. On the one hand, it’s there’s a lot a lot talked about GDPR. And there’s

recently California and equivalent of it.

The reality is that regardless of the legislation is that the data that you capture, and store about the people that are important to you, as a business, that’s the people that are spending money with you or thinking about spending money with you.

It’s really, really valuable and deserves to be treated by you as a as an organization with as much care and responsibility as the money that you put into your bank, if not more so, because the money is in your bank now is static, but the information that you have about your contacts can actually be used to create more, more money. So on the one hand, it was like

do the right thing. Don’t be a dick. Don’t don’t do stuff. Don’t do stuff with your with your

Clients data that you wouldn’t want done to yourself and to that, so to that end, it doesn’t really matter about GDPR and, and all the different legislations. Because if you are doing the right thing by your customers, and if you’ve got to know, like trust approach to the relationships that you have with your customers and your prospects, the chances are, you’re doing the right thing anyway. But actually, when you actually dig down deep into the legislation, and I do the short store, the short straw in my company, to actually do that, to make sure that we are GDPR compliant, it really is just a, I’ve said, use the word just too many times over the last couple of minutes. So I just must stop.

It, it is a it is a


representation of of stuff, which we were doing anyway. So it was relatively straightforward for us to become GDPR compliant. But from a technical perspective, and it comes down to, you know, making sure that you get permission to store information. And you can do that, you know, relatively straightforwardly with a with a tick box, you will want to make sure that you’re storing information about who who tick that, who tick the box, when they ticked it, where they were when they ticked it. So you’ve got that

from a compliance perspective.

Now, that’s relatively short and straightforward. For a technical perspective, it is important for most businesses, to have the confidence that the data that they’re storing about their customers is in is in the country of their customers. So for example, we’ve got a partner.

They, they’re their market, if you like their niche is mortgage brokers in Canada. So we’re making sure that the systems that they

spin up, that are built on the canter, the data is stored in Canada, and likewise in UK and Australia. So this is another way that we’ve another approach that we’ve taken to that kind of personalization is we we recognize that’s important. So we’ve made sure that there is a

we’ve done that the technical work to make sure that when you sign up for my counter, you can say I want my data to be stored here.

And that that is another way that you can that you move yourself towards compliance with GDPR. And generally with with other other legislation like that. Does that answer your question? It does.

Thank you. All right. Well, I think we’ve gone for a pretty good time here today. And we’ve covered quite a lot with certainly a few more episodes could definitely fall out of this. And I’ve made a run for my own back every night.

I mean, content is great, all round for everybody. So I’m always happy to jump on with a chat with you, Peter, and likewise for us. So if there’s no other comments, I guess, thank you very much paint for joining us today and answering you guys about CRM and marketing automation and decanter, and why all that is so important for a business to get their head around.

Please make sure you look up Peter on his LinkedIn profile. And you can also find out more on mecanica CRM.

If you go to the contact page, you’ll find Peter there and you’ll be able to click through to his LinkedIn page. So if you’ve got any other questions, you can always ask us on any of the socials or if you jump on to the frontline podcast comm and fill out the contact form we’ll be sure to get in touch as soon as possible. So thank you very much for listening to us on the front line. Take care and have a good one.

You have been listening to the sales and marketing podcast. We hope you enjoyed this episode. And hope to see you again soon on the front line.